Apologies to everyone for the lack of activity on this blog, but the thing is, we've been busy boys and it's all relates to the above question. The thing is, what we all know, but we at The Escapers choose to mutter quietly and while nobody is listening, is that Flux can be a little slow even on pretty fast Macs. We're been looking at all kinds of ways to resolve this problem, and while moving a lot of code to pure C rather than the Objective variety has improved things a lot, it's only got us so far.
So, in The Escapers "Labs" (That's my flat), we're been cultivating a Leopard-only version of Flux which makes heavy use of Core Animation, which is a Leopard only feature. This has given Flux an incredible speed boost, especially on Macs with great graphics cards, so even older Macs get a great benefit, as although say G4 Powerbooks lack a bit in CPU speed, they more than make up for it with the GPU.
The problem with all this is that if the "Labs" version goes mainstream, we lose support for Tiger. We could of course maintain two versions of Flux, building features into the "Labs" version, then if they're Tiger-compatible, use them in the older version. This is a lot of work, but could be worth it if we find we have a lot of users sticking around on Tiger.
Please let us know how you feel about this, either mail us if you want a personal response, or maybe post on the forum or here on the blog. We know that Tiger is not that old, I myself run a G5 with Tiger as well as my Leopard powered MacBook, but the benefits may outweigh the disadvantages. Let us know what you think!
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Leopard only is fine with me. Actually, its preferable.
Leopard works for me, and upgrade your G5 to Leopard, works great on mine (1st gen Dual 2GHz)
Leopard only is fine for me, too.
I created a poll in forums for you:
http://www.theescapers.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=309
I currently use only Tiger and would hope to see you and other developers at least sale a Tiger version along with minimal support. I have some software on my G5 that wouldn't work in Leopard and my quad G5 won't support 10.6 ever! I may keep it running Tiger even though a friend has a few extra upgrade licences. I will likely get another Mac within a year myself for Leopard and perhaps Wintel use.
Leopard is fine for me too.
Leopard Only is fine with me too.
It is only those that are on Tiger that need to speak up and make their voices heard, maybe a limited feature set and keep bug fixes but that is all.
My 1.2 Cents
I am all for Leopard only.
Perhaps just make one last revision to Flux for Tiger to make it bug free, and leave it up on the site noting that all future revisions will be Leopard only.
Essentially have a the version you work on and will continue to, and also have a non-leopard download for those less fortunate :P
Felix Diro [@gmail.com]
Thanks everyone for the comments, right now we're committed to few more releases on Tiger, and then when the Core Animation stuff is solid, we'll probably go to Leopard only.
Personally I only keep Tiger for Flux testing, but I know some people need it for compatibility and some people just don't think Leopard is worth the green, but I assure everyone here that the CA improvements are well worth it.
Cheers
GT
You cannot spend your life bringing compatibility to the past...Did you see how many copies of Leopard went out the door? To me the question who will make us irrevelant if we don't move to Leopard... Have you seen the software coming out of www.app4mac.com
Don't wait... Leopard customers are your base.
tiger holds you back
I'm Tiger guy and will be probaly until 10.6. In US you look different on lot os things. On green also as you say. But my biggest problem si that download link is dead.So I could not try it yet but looks promissing. Speed issue could be problem of course. Anyone can help/suggest? Jilek(@) stesticko.cz thanks remove () please. Frantisek
I've been using Leopard exclusively since it shipped and I've had very few issues. And, I definitely prefer it to Tiger because of the increased Windows compatibility (networking-wise) and the general speed improvements on my MacBook Pro (it does seem to run faster than Tiger did). Plus, apps that use Core Animation look really cool!
I agree with one of the previous commenters who said you should fix up any bugs in the TIger compatible version and leave it on the site for users who need it with a disclaimer that future versions will be Leopard only. I don't think that any of the developers who have gone Leopard only (Delicious Monster for example) have been hurt by it. Apple sold millions of copies of Leopard so there's definitely an install base to support it.
I'm OK with Leopard only, but I agree with the comment that a Tiger version should probably be kept around for a while. Both for the benefit of users who are still on Tiger and for the benefit of the Escapers' turnover.
I'm tiger only, and will stay that way until 10.6, probably until 10.6 is out. I think there's quite a few people out there who think the same - I've yet to find a killer app to force me to upgrade, and until that happens, I'll stay put.
I concur with "Felix"....one last revision for Tiger and going forward with Core Animation dev for Leopard...
Leopard only!
I have no problem with it being Leopard only, but you probably should keep a Tiger version around (until at least 10.5.9 or so, if not 10.6), or else you might be missing out on a lot of customers who would otherwise have no problem running Flux...
But once 10.6 hits, you should definitely drop Tiger support (and maybe even opt for 10.6 only?). By then, most people will have upgraded to at least Leopard, if not Snow Leopard.
Will "Leopard only" provide new features, or just interface polish? I love interface polish, but unless they add actual features then I think it's important to continue developing for both Tiger and Leopard, at least for awhile.
Maybe giving us a few specific examples of what a "Leopard only" version of Flux will provide will get everyone on the band wagon, and give those of us who are still on Tiger time to make the switch to Leopard in preparation.
"Speed boost" is a great feature, but I'd like to hear some hints of other possible features too! Thanks!
The number one reason for going Leopard is speed, Leopard has Core Animation, which although known for fancy effects, is also a *very* fast graphical layer system.
The layer system gives us speed by allowing us to redraw only certain elements at a particular time, rather than redraw the whole page (which is why Flux can be slow on complex pages).
We are still working support these layers in Flux, but we are very close, we haven't even started optimizing the new system yet, and it's already many times faster than the old system.
The other advantage is UI polish, not just effects, but buttons and other controls, at the moment, a huge amount of Flux is custom controls, because Tiger simply doesn't provide all the nice buttons we are used to seeing in apps like iPhoto or other Apple apps, so we have to recreate them, costing us time, and of course, it's difficult to match them exactly...
Hope this helps.
I would prefer the speed boost and Leopard only. We have 8 macs in our office, including a few hacked G4s and all of the machines are running 10.5 happily. Tiger is aging fast. 10.6 is already on the horizon, let's move on.
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